Women, Sport, and Film Course

Sponsored by the Department of Athletics and Physical Education at Bryn Mawr College, with support from the Center for Science In Society at Bryn Mawr College and the Serendip website.

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FORUM ARCHIVE

WEEK 3

Name:  Amy Campbell
Username:  acampbel@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Remember The Titans
Date:  2004-02-12 16:50:29
Message Id:  8136
Comments:
Racial tension and social equality are complex issues which reside through out all aspects of society- as do the other 'isms' and "phobia's" --sexism, agism, classism, homophobia, etc.

Movies can provide a snapshot of those issues and in Remember the Titans, a true story has been used to portray sport as 'an even playing field' and a place where the common goal of pursuing victory and what it will take to achieve victory, eventually trumps the racial tensions.

What makes sport an easy vehicle to shed animosities and what other vehicles are there on College campuses to "bring people together" in dialogue and deed. What are the vehicles we can use on our campus to bridge cultural, racial, ethnic, orientation divides, when they exist?


Name:  Jes
Username:  jbourne@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  2nd comment
Date:  2004-02-12 18:34:51
Message Id:  8141
Comments:
Both Jess and Julie are passionate about playing soccer-and don't see their participation in gender terms yet their frinds and families relate to their participation through the lens of gender and in the case of Julie's mother, sexual orientation. Why does sport heighten the conversation re: gender and orientation for women and not for men? Are there other places in society this happens?

I think that any time a woman displays 'masculine' traits (physical ability, basic self-confidence, assertiveness), there are going to be some who question her sexuality. On the other hand, even if it doesn't happen with most sports, some men do get questioned about their sexuality. I mean, has anyone ever watched wrestling (the kind that happens in high school, not the WWF type thing) and not wondered?

But, yeah, women get questioned more than men. I think that's probably because it's more obvious when a woman is 'intruding' on male dominated areas, like sports of business or law enforcement. It's more acceptable for men to be involved in female dominated areas, especially if they're very good at it. For instance, people might question if a man just likes to cook in general, but if he is an incredible cook (especially of 'man food'), then no one really questions it. On the other hand, there's really no way for a man to justify having a huge interest in clothing. People are probably just going to assume he's gay, even if he's a really great designer.


Name:  Julia F.
Username:  
Subject:  Sport as facilitator
Date:  2004-02-15 14:57:30
Message Id:  8175
Comments:
I think that originally, sport helped people become more open to other people out of necessity. Quite a few sports are team based, and to be a successful team, the members must work together. After time, members begin to respect their team members as good players and then as people.

Music is akin to sport in this way...if the person plays an instrument or sings well, then they are respected for that and then as people. Basically, I think that any fine art will do this, because it is based on ability and respecting people for their abilities.


Name:  Sarah
Username:  shalter@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-16 00:55:04
Message Id:  8193
Comments:
What makes sport an easy vehicle to shed animosities and what other vehicles are there on College campuses to "bring people together" in dialogue and deed. What are the vehicles we can use on our campus to bridge cultural, racial, ethnic, orientation divides, when they exist?

When you're on a team with someone, you have to play with them or you'll hurt your entire team. You're in close contact with other people and it's really obvious if people don't get along. Communication is really important on the field. Also there is a degree of equality on the team; everyone's playing toward the same goal and on equal footing. Sports games create a competitive and aggressive setting, but (usually) remove any hostile activity. The best man/woman wins.

On the campus, there are clubs, teams and meetings all the time. I know many clubs hold debates, forums and panels. I think something as simple as random room assignment as a freshman helps, too. During customs week, we did a lot of stuff to get to know other freshman.


Name:  Jen Colella
Username:  jcolella@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Sports and Bonding
Date:  2004-02-16 02:02:11
Message Id:  8194
Comments:
Sports bring people together because there is a common goal. Like Coach Boone said, "I come to win", a theme reiterated throughout, especially in his seeming monologue in front of the field. It is a struggle but the seeming simplicity of win or loose, come together or fall apart, manages to temporarily transcend societal problems. They come together to play as a team, to win as a team.

I think there are a lot of other group related activities which can bring people together. The movie focused in on the marching band and cheerleaders as integrated a few times. Anytime there is a common goal, a group brings people together. I think maybe sports are perhaps more useful because it invokes school spirit and a degree of contact you might not see with the other groups on campus, as demonstrated by the locker room scenes in the movie. There is a level of closeness required in sports that can be worked around in other groups.

I think diversity groups are a great idea for campuses, and customs week dealt with a lot of diversity issues. It's good to get people talking, and I feel we do that on campus through groups.


Name:  Amy Campbell
Username:  acampbel@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  question 2
Date:  2004-02-16 11:53:46
Message Id:  8206
Comments:
Great responses. These are complex issues. Many have talked about the arts and athletics as providing an environment which brings people together for a common goal. Are there other opportunities on campus to engage in conversation, areas which encourage an inclusive environment and ones which support and appreciate diversity?
Name:  Katie Aker
Username:  kaker@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Commentary 1
Date:  2004-02-16 18:19:49
Message Id:  8222
Comments:
In sport, like many other disciplines, success is based on talent, skill, and cooperation. In order for the team to succeed, they needed to look past social barriers to the core of the person and their abilities on the playing field. Being in the same uniform, almost indistinguishable from one another on the playing field, a member of a team is judged on skills and therefore when in that situation the playing field was equal.
Any activity that brings people together with common interests allows a forum where people can look past the outside of a person and connect with her on the level of the interest and then beyond.
Although seminars on cultural, racial, ethnic, and orientation divides often turn personal and confrontational; as mentioned in class the idea of having the group view movies, or perhaps even a controversial play, etc., distances the participants from their personal experiences and therefore provides a more productive forum.
Name:  Katie Aker
Username:  kaker@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Commentary 2
Date:  2004-02-16 18:32:14
Message Id:  8223
Comments:
I think that any positive setting that encourages a nonoffensive diversity discussion to all involved would naturally be inclusive. I've had issues in classes where the participants in a conversation about a book, as soon as personal experiences were involved, would turn into a heated debate. I think respect is a major issue in any discussion, nevermind one about a sometimes sensitive subject. I think sometimes also not making it the main issue, and letting the subject come up naturally, is also more productive and the discussion is less pressured.
Name:  Lindsey Giblin
Username:  lgiblin@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Remember the Titans
Date:  2004-02-16 19:18:19
Message Id:  8226
Comments:
What makes sport an easy vehicle to shed animosities and what other vehicles are there on College campuses to "bring people together" in dialogue and deed. What are the vehicles we can use on our campus to bridge cultural, racial, ethnic, orientation divides, when they exist?

I think when you're on a sports team of any kind, qualities like teamwork, helping and supporting each other and community are emphasized in order to come together as a team, be successful and win. Remember that corny saying, 'there's no i in team'? well its kinda true, because in order to come together as a group people need to focus less on their individual needs and desires and more on what is good for the group. This usually includes sacrifice and hard work.
Discussions about diversity on campus work kind of in the same way. They allow us to step into other people's shoes and take a look at what 'the other' person goes through. They allow us to listen to other peoples' perspectives and share our own. These discussions, like team sports, are an opportunity to focus more on what we have in common rather than how we are different. In this way, cultural, racial, ethnic, and orientation gaps can start to be bridged and understood better.


Name:  Julia F.
Username:  
Subject:  dialogues
Date:  2004-02-16 22:16:49
Message Id:  8231
Comments:
I think something as simple as the campus center encourages people to engage in conversation about issues. I have had countless conversations in the campus center ranging from all topics, some of which with people I don't know. And as silly as it sounds, the couches help a lot. They make people comfortable with their surroundings, and thus help them to be open to other people's opinions. I have not yet gone to a dialogue that was truly open that was held in stiff chairs. Your mind does obey your body in certain situations.

I think that some of the most important dialogues occur naturally. Again, I feel that there's something forced about a dialogue that is scheduled. Not to say that the dialogues that go on on campus aren't productive, they are a good gateway to get people thinking about the issues. And the fact that they go on at all is a reminder to people that the issues that the dialogues address exist. So perhaps dialogues occur in stages, organized and sporadic.

For me, I prefer the campus center.


Name:  ria
Username:  sbanerje@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-16 22:22:17
Message Id:  8232
Comments:
What makes sport an easy vehicle to shed animosities and what other vehicles are there on College campuses to "bring people together" in dialogue and deed. What are the vehicles we can use on our campus to bridge cultural, racial, ethnic, orientation divides, when they exist?

I think the sheer physicality of sport makes it an easy vehicle to bond over. It helps people realise that underneath racial, cultural, ethnic and other dividers, we are just humans. If we are punched, we'll all curl up moaning and we're also capable of similar feats of endurance (given, of course, a similarity of physique). It doesnt matter what colour one's skin is, for example, if all other factors are the same.

The easiest way to bridge gaps is probably to talk about them. Once you talk openly to the "Other", it becomes obvious that they are not so different from you after all. And even if they are, you start to appreciate them for their differences as much as for their similarity to you. This is why the Diversity Workshops we have on campus, though not the most popular event, is an important step forward.


Name:  ria
Username:  sbanerje@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  is this the second response-question?
Date:  2004-02-16 22:43:16
Message Id:  8233
Comments:
Are there other opportunities on campus to engage in conversation, areas which encourage an inclusive environment and ones which support and appreciate diversity?

I think that our dorms are themselves the best example of environments that encourage and appreciate diversity. Take my own hall as an example - we have students from all over the US as well as two international students. This means that not only do I get to feast on Lebanese sweets, I also learnt the difference between Red Vines and Twizzlers (the former are more popular on the West Coast, the latter on the East, I'm told!). If that isn't the best example of a supportive environment, what is?


Name:  Kate Amlin
Username:  kamlin2bmc
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-16 22:57:16
Message Id:  8234
Comments:
I think that the old, cliqued motivational phrase, that there is no I in TEAM, applies to the realm of racial tensions on the sports field. Sports provide a forum where individuals from different racial and ethnic backgrounds must come together to achieve a common goal of victory. Sports teams often help to break down racial stereotypes and divisions by brining together a wide variety of people and showing them what they can accomplish together...and how much fun they can have together.

There is a lot of racial and ethnic diversity on this campus but I do not feel that it is an issue that students focus on as much as they should. Students should be more willing to participate in diversity workshops and lectures, and reach out to meet people who they consider to be "different" from themselves. Since racial and ethnic topics are often complicated by tension and animosity, I do not think that one forum will uniquely provide an adequate space to discuss these issues. However, sports teams, academic and social clubs, and even the classroom can provide welcome opportunities for such dialogues.


Name:  Lindsey
Username:  lgiblin@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  comment #2
Date:  2004-02-17 21:18:10
Message Id:  8259
Comments:
Issues surrounding racial, ethnic, and orientation differences can be difficult issues to talk about. They come with a lot of baggage and assumptions that can be hard to break down in order to come to an understanding. The most effective diversity conversations and dialogues that I have had were the ones where people were not hiding behind the curtain of political correctness and could be uncomfortable and difficult. I think it is necessary sometimes for people to step out of their "comfort zones" in order to create real dialogue, even though it can be hard and difficult to hear at times.
People may not always be inclined to do this on their hall or in other campus spaces, which is why I think organized dialogue discussions are imperative to moving forward with issues of diversity on campus.
Name:  Jes
Username:  jbourne@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Two posts in one! (Ooooh, aaah.)
Date:  2004-02-17 22:03:02
Message Id:  8260
Comments:
What makes sport an easy vehicle to shed animosities and what other vehicles are there on College campuses to "bring people together" in dialogue and deed. What are the vehicles we can use on our campus to bridge cultural, racial, ethnic, orientation divides, when they exist? I think one of the reasons that sports can help bridge divides is because, for a team really focused on winning and doing its best, what matters the most is the amount of skill that someone brings to the team, not any of their other aspects. However, I'm sure that there are many people who aren't able to focus on doing their best to the exclusion of those divides, and I'm sure that, while divides may be less of an issue in sports, they are probably still and issue on some teams. (As, in the movie, they would have been in the coach hadn't been so hard on them.) Off the top of my head, I can't really think of any activity that is quite as focused on results (rather than the process) as sports activities are. I suppose that in any group where you have sufficient focus on getting something done, then racial/ethnic/whatever issues would become non-issues. So, maybe that would happen in things like volunteer programs, where the people who join are usually really devoted to getting stuff done. Plus, they're usually pretty open minded, at least here. Many have talked about the arts and athletics as providing an environment which brings people together for a common goal. Are there other opportunities on campus to engage in conversation, areas which encourage an inclusive environment and ones which support and appreciate diversity? Sure! We have a lot of activities that invite communication and appreciation-- the problem is that no one attends them! But then, no one attends quite a lot of things here. Still, I think we do have a lot of activies like that. Plus, since most of the people who attend this school are pretty open minded, I feel that a certian amount of dialogue happens anyway.
Name:  Kate
Username:  kamlin
Subject:  post 2
Date:  2004-02-18 14:50:16
Message Id:  8268
Comments:
Great responses. These are complex issues. Many have talked about the arts and athletics as providing an environment which brings people together for a common goal. Are there other opportunities on campus to engage in conversation, areas which encourage an inclusive environment and ones which support and appreciate diversity?

I have to agree with Jes on this one. We have a diverse campus, which is definitely a plus, but many of the students are so apathetic that discussions on our differences suffer from a lack of attendance. Additionally I feel that, for the most part, students are very vocal in class on issues of academic interest but shy away from divulging their true feelings on highly controversial social issues such as differences in race and ethnicity. Important and enlightening discussions go unexplored when people are polite to a fault.


Name:  Jen Colella
Username:  jcolella@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Segregation
Date:  2004-02-18 18:18:21
Message Id:  8272
Comments:
Hey everybody,

I hope hell week is starting well for everyone. I think there are some great comments floating around right now, and I'd just like to mention one problem I've been having trying to reconcile some of them with women's sports. I think it's true in the movie, and many team situations, that prejudices can be overcome and the team united through common goals. The teams is integrated, and so they learn to work together because they have to. I wonder what this means for women's sports, since women's sports are separate from men's, and therefore men and women never have to learn to work together or depend on one another like they did in the movie. In my own gym classes, the boy's would play basketball games while the girl's were put in the back gym to practice dribbling (even girls already on a basketball team), and the boy's played football while the girls played catch with it across the field. I'm not suggesting teams should be integrated, and I'm not supporting separation, I'm just wondering what this says and what further roadblocks it represents to achieving the sort of social victory apparent within the movie.


Name:  Sarah
Username:  shalter@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-19 12:38:59
Message Id:  8289
Comments:
Are there other opportunities on campus to engage in conversation, areas which encourage an inclusive environment and ones which support and appreciate diversity?

I guess something that's overlooked is the very classrooms we learn in. For example, I was in a CSem called, "Memory Matters," and we looked at texts about the Holocaust, American slavery and the acts in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

This seems to be a reoccurring theme in Bryn Mawr classrooms. Our teachers encourage us to not just consider local or familiar events, but look at historical events that have things in common, but occurred in totally different parts of the world. We try to examine them from the point of view of many different people and investigate what went on.

I know Bryn Mawr offers a lot of seminars and panels and such (I get the activities emails), but I know I don't go to a lot of them. I wish sometimes we'd get different advertisement about these events. How many times have I erased an email without looking at it because I got 20 others in just the past hour? I know this is something I should avoid doing, but it'd be nice if these special events were advertised in different ways. Bryn Mawr does make the effort to bring these to our school.




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