Women, Sport, and Film Course

Sponsored by the Department of Athletics and Physical Education at Bryn Mawr College, with support from the Center for Science In Society at Bryn Mawr College and the Serendip website.

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FORUM ARCHIVE

WEEK 3

Name:  Amy Campbell
Username:  acampbel@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Remember The Titans
Date:  2004-02-12 16:51:38
Message Id:  8138
Comments:
Racial tension and social equality are complex issues which reside through out all aspects of society- as do the other 'isms' and "phobia's" --sexism, agism, classism, homophobia, etc.

Movies can provide a snapshot of those issues and in Remember the Titans, a true story has been used to portray sport as 'an even playing field' and a place where the common goal of pursuing victory and what it will take to achieve victory, eventually trumps the racial tensions.

What makes sport an easy vehicle to shed animosities and what other vehicles are there on College campuses to "bring people together" in dialogue and deed. What are the vehicles we can use on our campus to bridge cultural, racial, ethnic, orientation divides, when they exist?


Name:  Megan
Username:  mlasher@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  remember the titans
Date:  2004-02-14 18:52:16
Message Id:  8164
Comments:
What makes sport an easy vehicle to shed animosities and what other vehicles are there on College campuses to "bring people together" in dialogue and deed. What are the vehicles we can use on our campus to bridge cultural, racial, ethnic, orientation divides, when they exist?

Sports are an easy vehicle to shed all of those 'isms' because teammates must depend on each other. I think individual sports are less likely to overcome these barriers than team sports. Also, in all sports, the playing field is leveled because race, religion, sexual orientation, these things don't really affect how good of an athlete a person is.

On college campuses there are other things that are done as a team, things like debate teams, quiz bowl, things like that where people have to rely on each other. Also, things like race, religion, and sexual orientation don't really affect how good of a scholar a person is; those characteristics might just affect that person's opinions and interests. There are other vehicles like culture shows or dinners that clubs put on and these things show the entire campus things about a certain culture. Education tends to overcome these prejudices because prejudices like these are unfounded.


Name:  Kat Macdonald
Username:  kmacdona@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-15 19:18:27
Message Id:  8182
Comments:
"What makes sport an easy vehicle to shed animosities and what other vehicles are there on College campuses to "bring people together" in dialogue and deed. What are the vehicles we can use on our campus to bridge cultural, racial, ethnic, orientation divides, when they exist?"

Psychologically speaking (if I remember my lab science correctly), small groups that spend a great deal of isolated time together tend to shift closer together to form a cohesive, unified group of similar opinions and actions. Sports teams could be considered such groups (as can the military and cults, but let's ignore that part).

Sports are an easy vehicle for bringing people together because psychologically speaking, it _works_. That whole thing where Coach Boone isolated everyone for two weeks? Totally follows social psych theory.

Other vehicles that we can use on Bryn Mawr campus would be such things that would create more isolated groups. Theater troupes -- work-study co-workers -- and possibly activities such as this one, where you'll notice that already, we as a group are developing a distinct personality separate from the other groups. By the end of the class, we might have our own writing style, favorite arguments, or tiny traditions, all of which could lead us to bridging problems and becoming a unified people.


Name:  Dustin Raup
Username:  Anonymous
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-16 00:54:39
Message Id:  8192
Comments:
Sports make the "even playing field" by stripping away the individuality of the players. Each player becomes one face of the team, each team being an entity. Thus they are governed by the overall personality of the team rather than their own eccentricities. This only works to a point, however. If more than half of a team is obviously different, the team's personality is affected. For example, in high school football in my area there were "black" teams and "white" teams. My school had a "black" team because we had a team that was slightly more than half black.

Thus, in Remember the Titans, the team got over racism within itself because to each other they were part of the same whole, obscured by uniform. To the outside world, they were still the integrated team until they had distinguished themselves as something other.


Name:  Rachel Robbins
Username:  rrobbins@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  White vrs Black
Date:  2004-02-16 06:18:34
Message Id:  8199
Comments:
What makes sport an easy vehicle to shed animosities and what other vehicles are there on College campuses to "bring people together" in dialogue and deed. What are the vehicles we can use on our campus to bridge cultural, racial, ethnic, orientation divides, when they exist?

Sports are successful in overcoming cultural barriers, because the pursuit of a common goal that is based on athletic skill and discipline is not necessarily affected by the variance of nuance or by significant or in significant difference. Like Dustin said, these personal differences in 'Remember the Titans' were insignificant under the cloak of the uniform.

However, We did see an example of racial animosity on the field in 'Bend It Like Beckham' when one of the players form an opposing team called Jess a racial slur which caused her to retaliate and attack the other player.

I think that while sports and athletics may be successful in overcoming many barriers that may prevail in other aspects of society, they may also lend a hand in creating them. The type of thought that establishes a mutually exclusive, oppositional binary approach to thinking about things is very much the type of thought behind competitive sport and the thought behind nationalism and xenophobia. This is not universally (or uniformly) true, because there is a lot of bonding, comradery, and connectedness that comes from sports and sports teams. However, especially with national professional men's sports teams, many sentiments are conveyed not just through the sport itself, but the culture of sport, in the advertising, the commentating, and the constructions of genders and races. These factors can contribute to a culture that does not shed animosity, but unknowingly perpetuates it.


Name:  Sarah Kim
Username:  skim@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Remember The Titans
Date:  2004-02-16 11:45:31
Message Id:  8205
Comments:
What makes sport an easy vehicle to shed animosities and what other vehicles are there on College campuses to "bring people together" in dialogue and deed. What are the vehicles we can use on our campus to bridge cultural, racial, ethnic, orientation divides, when they exist?

Well, I think everybody has basically covered what I was going to say about sport...what is it, like...my enemy's enemy is my best friend, right? That's kind of how it is with sports. In sports, you have a team, and regardless of whether you truly LOVE each individual on your team or not, they become your best friends when you're competing AGAINST somebody else because you have a common "enemy" then.

I think Rachel commented upon the racial slur used in Bend It Like Beckham, and I was thinking it was weird that nothing like that happened in Remember the Titans. I mean, I know the whole movie was about racial tension, but they said that all the other high school teams were JUST white, all white, and I thought it was a bit odd, truthfully, that none of the other football teams made racial slurs or anything on the field. Granted, that one coach made the comment about the Titans being monkeys or something, but nothing from other teams directed at the Titans about their ethnicity while on the field. I guess that's what you get from a Disney movie, huh?

Anyway, I think that divides in cultural, racial, ethnic, and orientation arenas stem from ignorance. I truly feel that if people were exposed enough to other cultures, races, etc. then they would see people for who they are, not what catagory they fall under.


Name:  Amy Campbell
Username:  acampbel@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  response 2
Date:  2004-02-16 11:54:39
Message Id:  8208
Comments:
Great responses. These are complex issues. Many have talked about the arts and athletics as providing an environment which brings people together for a common goal. Are there other opportunities on campus to engage in conversation, areas which encourage an inclusive environment and ones which support and appreciate diversity?
Name:  Sarah Martin
Username:  smartin@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Remember the Titans
Date:  2004-02-16 15:01:44
Message Id:  8214
Comments:
Q: What makes sport an easy vehicle to shed animosities and what other vehicles are there on College campuses to "bring people together" in dialogue and deed. What are the vehicles we can use on our campus to bridge cultural, racial, ethnic, orientation divides, when they exist?

A: I would like to start by making a comment about diversity dialoges here at the colleges. At a hall tea last night, one student pointed out that she would be much more willing to go to these events if she didn't leave feeling guilty for being white and not gay. Feedback on this comment would be more than welcome.
I know this answer is not going to be the most popular, but it is what I have learned. After four years of single handedly trying to crush naive phobias and "isms" at my high school I am tired. People don't change. I feel like thier is no use trying at this age; everyone is firmly set in her beliefs. It would take an inner jolt or a message from god to change what you believe. If we want a culture of acceptance we have to start young and expose little children to different ways of living. If society waits until humans are teenagers, I believe there is nothing you can do.


Name:  Rachel Robbins
Username:  rrobbins@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  Response 2
Date:  2004-02-16 20:19:39
Message Id:  8228
Comments:
I have to disagree with Sarah. I think that College is an ideal place to challenge your beliefs, and to grow as a person. There are an infinite number of ways to be in this world, and countless affinities, and I think that one thing that unites all of us while here at school is the desire to learn, and challenge ourselves, and ultimately the goal is to graduate, and finish with a certain degree of success.

But I have had similar experiences and frustrations regarding confronting prejudices either my own, or in others. In one of my Women's Studies that I took at Oberlin before transferring to Bryn Mawr I had a classmate e-mail me apologizing for her own prejudices as a white woman whom had never met a person of color before. She then went on to apologize to me for slavery. I honestly had no idea what to say. How do you respond to something that is simultaneously that honest, and so completely outside of my scope.

I feel like I have been in a lot of situations in my life, and I have had a lot of conversations regarding race, either facilitated in a series, or not. Especially because I have more often the not found myself a racial and cultural minority in a room full of people who I (often wrongly) perceive as having a monolithic experience, I have not spoken up, or silenced myself for fear of being (mis)understood. I think that this type of fear, and the fear of not believing in the value of your own experience because you find yourself in the "majority" is the very fear that keeps honest and open dialogue from occurring. It is also very difficult to separate our ideas and opinions on the topic of race from our own experience, or from the experience of race in this country. This also creates silence in an environment where we are used to being able to objectify at least enough to create comfort. For the real and meaningful conversations, it takes a lot of trust to get past the fears, and a commitment to not clinging to the comfort at the cost of the conversation. I truly believe that honesty is the key, and having strength and confidence in our own experiences and convictions.


Name:  Jenna Rosania
Username:  jrosania@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-17 00:24:24
Message Id:  8237
Comments:
People are right about sports being the leveler, when there's a common goal with common skills, that creates a respect that also is based on a need for the help of others to attain that goal or improve those skills. In Remember the Titans, the race thing didn't matter after a while because they had an equalizer, which was football. Music did that too, especially jazz in the early part of the last century, when different people find something they like that's common, they find the opportunity to allow themselves to not be wrapped up in what society thinks is a divider. In sports people are also stripped of their personal issues and backgrounds to play a role in a team, and to act according to the other people in that team, so again the things that made a person feel different can be overlooked as long as they can show some proof that they can be like someone else. Not to criticize awakenings of the concept of the only race being the human race and social acceptance and all that, but people often need something concrete to change their minds, ideas only change when people are given the chance to question old ideas through daring and sometimes discomforting circumstances. In this way, I can see how this movie relates to women in sports, because whether its about race or gender, people are always having to prove wrong what people have always thought was right.
Name:  Heather Price
Username:  hprice@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-17 13:38:50
Message Id:  8250
Comments:
Okay, big post because I wasn't on campus this weekend and missed the first question.

I think sports is one of the few things in our society that really transcends all sorts of phobias and isms because it is the most neccessary. In team sports you can't get away with looking out just for yourself at all. If you don't cooperate with the team, you will lose; not just personally, but as a team. I think that was best shown in the movie when Julius and Gary are talking after practice and Gary wants to know why the other guy didn't block for his teammate. Race or not, they all needed to look out for one another to acheive anything.

"Are there other opportunities on campus to engage in conversation, areas which encourage an inclusive environment and ones which support and appreciate diversity?"
I think that there are. Every club and organization on this campus is successful by the inclusion of everyone. The only problem I have with saying this is that on our campus (like everywhere in the world) people make assumptions about others and from there think they know where they come from. I think we all need to listen to each other more because that is the only way anyone can learn about another person, but too many people in this world just hear what they want and assume they know exactly where the other person is coming from. It's very frustrating.


Name:  kmacdona
Username:  kmacdona@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  hall teas
Date:  2004-02-17 15:39:36
Message Id:  8252
Comments:
"At a hall tea last night, one student pointed out that she would be much more willing to go to these events if she didn't leave feeling guilty for being white and not gay."

Obviously I wasn't present at this comment, nor do I really know any of the context surrounding it, but I think there's a couple of ways that comment could be interpreted. Mostly, I don't think it's inherently negative.

For instance, I'd be curious as to the usual nature of the hall teas. Is it heavily oriented toward gay/minority issues/culture? While it's tough to remember it sometimes, even a member of the majority can be in a non-welcoming environment. If, say, there are anti-heterosexual or anti-white comments being made, then I could see why the student would feel uncomfortable attending hall teas.

Also consider what the "guilt" might stem from. Why guilt? Does she feel a pressure to be white-straight-girl scapegoat (whether or not there actually _is_ pressure)? Why does she feel this way? Perhaps a dialogue discussing who's responsible for what (ie. no, she's not personally responsible for Matthew Shepard's murder) would be helpful. It's possible that she just feels _bad_ about this stuff, and helpless to stop/help solve it, and therefore, wishes to avoid it. Like a social form of survivor guilt.

All in all, asking her what she meant in more detail would be my course of action. If it was truly negative, perhaps discussing with her why she's disturbed by her hallmates would help. If it's not, though... I'd consider ways to make her feel more welcome and less like the odd [wo]man out.


Name:  Jenna Rosania
Username:  jrosania@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-18 21:41:42
Message Id:  8277
Comments:
I think for the most part we like to prode ourselves on having outlets for discussion about racial and gender issues among other things, the problem is these discussions are sparsely attended. I think a lot of people have stopped thinking its important to talk about these things because they feel like Bryn Mawr IS so racially accepting and obviously very sympathetic to women's issues. When there is contentment about how accepted people feel, they don't feel like they have to fight for anything anymore or raise awareness, why should we raise awareness if everyone is aware? I remember during 9/11, something that scared everyone and drew so much attention to Muslim beliefs, almost the entire school came to Merion Green to talk about their feelings about it, and a shocking number of people in anger said that they blamed Muslims and Palestinians for it, that they were evil people and other horrible things that as a freshman, I couldn't believe I was hearing. Especially from Bryn Mawr students. Since then we have not felt as threatened by any specific group of people, we have not experienced anything as personal as we did then, so people have gotten back to being comfortable. I still think it is important to talk about these things because even when we think we know everything about a subject, we are often wrong. Discrimination still happens, even if it's off-campus, and since it's important to be aware of the world outside our school's culture, we should be armed with firm opinions and empathtic with people's feelings about how they are treated. So despite the sometimes disappointing attendance of discussion events that should be involving the entire community, I think they should continue to be held, and I support that people should have a place to talk and to learn.
Name:  Sarah Kim
Username:  skim@brynmawr.edu
Subject:  My response
Date:  2004-02-19 17:06:12
Message Id:  8292
Comments:
Okay, well, I was just reading all the comments posted in our forum, and I wanted to use this post to respond to some of the things I read (instead of responding directly to the second question) because there was a lot I wanted to address.

First of all, Sarah talked about how she feels that it's not even worth trying to convince people to be more open-minded because by the time they've reached this age, they're already set in their beliefs. I see her point, and I totally empathize, I've been in the same position with a completely close-minded person too, but I feel like it's always worth TRYING. I mean, first of all, most people's beliefs are shaped by their parents beliefs. But I feel like ESPECIALLY at this point in time, people are less willing to blindly accept their parents' point of view. Around this age, people question parental authority and often will try to rebel against their parents' belief system. Because of this, they may be more welcoming of new ideas.

In addition, I think that people are not always as informed as they could be about issues. And by discussing issues, though it may be frustrating because you won't be able to completely change their minds, you'll at least be presenting a different point of view. Even if people don't agree with you, they may be able to recognize the logic in some of your points, and you may help them define their own beliefs even more. I guess I just always feel like it's worth TRYING. Perhaps it will even benefit YOU more than the other person, because maybe YOU will realize some things from the discussion that you never knew before. I just see discussions and debates as inherently good and educational, as long as people don't let it get out of hand and take it too personally.
(Of course, that could be the debater in me coming out...just giving the Bryn Mawr Debate team a little plug - I'm the team director, so I feel like I should. If any of you are interested in joining the team, we meet Mondays at 9:30pm in Taylor...go BM debate! Lol, I'm done now.)

Okay, then Jenna made a couple of comments that I wanted to respond to. First of all, she mentioned something about how we should try to see it as simply the HUMAN race. I agree with her wholeheartedly, but it brought to mind an interesting fact I heard in biology. In the ENTIRE human race, there is very little biological diversity. Basically 99.9% of our genes are IDENTICAL, whether we're Chinese, German or Ethiopian. In the entire human race, there is MORE genetic similarity than in one single troop of monkeys. Isn't that fascinating? We see different races as SO different from us, when in fact, there is practically no biological diversity in the human species.

All right, then Jenna made another comment about how contentment with the current situation, as regarding acceptance on our campus, leads to a lack of activism. I think this is a great point. I think that you can even see this in the broader scope, nationwide. I mean, one could claim that the lack of voter turnout is really a good sign. Because people use their votes as their voices, and if people aren't voting, they must be content enough with the system as is, that they don't NEED to use their voice. Anyway that's about it for me. :)


Name:  Dustin Raup
Username:  Anonymous
Subject:  
Date:  2004-02-19 17:09:15
Message Id:  8293
Comments:
These are complex issues. Many have talked about the arts and athletics as providing an environment which brings people together for a common goal. Are there other opportunities on campus to engage in conversation, areas which encourage an inclusive environment and ones which support and appreciate diversity?

The oppertunities are really few and far between in a realistic sense. Yes there are awareness groups, but meetings, as far as I've seen, tend to be exclusive or not all that useful. For example, at Rainbow alliance people dont go because they're not gay or because they dont want the extra attention. Then once one goes, there tends to be only two distinct groups: overly pc straight people who take it too seriously and the openly gay and proud people. There are few others, especially since barely anyone goes in the first place. I personally stopped going because I didn't find it useful or a productive use of a tuesday night.

The diversity talks are also good in theory, but I feel like most of us have class during the discussions.

Another big equalizer is Hell Week. After Hell Week last year, I definitely stopped feeling like an outsider, but then I'm non-white and gay and thus do not feel the need to rebel against the Bryn Mawr persona. I don't really understand that though, because the majority of the campus is still heterosexual and white.

An idea for a more opened discussion may be a forum, linked on the homepage, or even a chat. That way we aren't constrained by time. Also, any extra speakers can be advertised. But, apathy may still prevail and we will be no better off.




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