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Notes 10-21
Class notes 10-21-2010
pfischer – discussing the issue of Nazi discussion and how it wasn't productive
kgould- it functioned as a healthy way to dialogue, shouldn't have taken as much time as it did
Anne Dalke – use value of name calling and how discussions can be stopped when you name call
platano – discussion about what we should be posting
rachelr – I usually talk about something we discussed and I didn't feel we finished, or a critical response. Something to open the discussion
Anne- you can rant and not be as structured as you are in class. No time limit. Don't want to give direction so you can speak about what you want to speak about
maht91 – not sure how accurate each word is in its definition since you can dig farther by defining the words in the definition
ckosarek – we shouldn't be looking for words but rather have senses of the words so they are shaped by their context rather than something more specific. If you look up a word that has a specific definition then you lock it into a meaning and you cant explore it more; different languages use senses rather than specific definitions
Anne Dalke – if you allow for contextual specificity more rich in meaning
ckosarek – lifeguard is a good example. Can be the kings guard or something we are more familiar with
maht91 – normally looks for one definition for each word
World of the Wars
EVD – there's really only one form of mass communication, its hard to believe that many people would believe that and think that its a metaphor for Nazi invasion
Anne Dalke – you're one of the few that were surprised, many other were gullible and said they would believe it
tgarber – if you missed the parts that said it wasn't true then you would believe it because he had a professor (and other reputable sources) and it was the only form of communication
SuperMarioGirl – knew it was fake but didn't realize everyone else knew it was fake, thought they were doing it as a prank and fooling everyone
Anne Dalke- it was very effective theater that had many people believing it
Owl – didn't want to believe that it wasn't real. If you can imagine it then its like maybe it could happen. Its scary to think it could happen
veritatemdelixi – only could happen at that time because after world war 2 we saw the atrocities
kgould – aquatine hungerforce (sp?) machines were taken down by bomb squads after 9/11 because people were so scared. Flower truck crashed during anthrax scare and people thought it was subversive attack. If you are primed for hysteria then you will become hysterical
Aya Seaver – America has never really been attacked on our own land, no reference point made it more believable because they had no backup. They don't know the feeling and have nothing to compare it to
ckosarek – no one wants to believe that people can convincingly lie like that. Something set up as a broadcast report style then it should be true. Not in our nature to consider it a lie.
Anne Dalke– journalistic format bothered us
Anne Dalke – how would you check this to be possible
pfischer– you don't fact check because you respond automatically, instinctual
rachelr – unbelievable
SuperMarioGirl- it wasn't on the other stations
owl – people are instinctual, they react without thinking about checking
EVD – they would never have musical interludes if that were really to happen, most adults checked multiple channels on 9/11 to see if it was real
Anne Dalke – we are naturally skeptical
veritatemdelixi – government official sounds just like the president
Anne Dalke – gives it credence
owl – we feel more strongly connected to something that is read as a narrative
rachelr – don't think invasion from mars is really believable. From another country then okay it would be more believable
SuperMarioGirl – but they hadn't been to the moon yet, our knowledge is much more extensive now. The timeline was too fast
Anne Dalke – what makes us gullible to a story
Aya Seaver – science fiction wasn't established as a genre at that time. They weren't used to that kind of story. Its a completely different context since we are more used to hearing about it.
Anne Dalke – does that make you more gullible if the genre was less well known
Aya Seaver – it depends on your knowledge. Don't know about cars but yes about dictionaries so I wouldn't be able to bargain for a car but I would for a dictionary
pfischer -the invasion narrative is well known, even if not that specific story
veritatemdelixi – 1938 we weren't out of the depression we were gearing up to World War II .. don't know if this could have happened another time since everyone was so worried about being involved in the war. They thought that maybe they should worry about outer space as well after hearing this
Anne Dalke – there was an anxiety that this story fit
Anne Dalke – locations matter if you live around there because you know where it is
platano – I can't watch it at night because I cant deal with aliens so I listened to it in the morning instead. Your imagination starts up
Anne Dalke – can we relocate nonfiction in the attitude of the hearer, rather than the intention of the creator. Our expectation is factual
ckosarek – you can validate that by looking at the reverse, some people think the holocaust didn't happen because of what they heard, so shouldn't the opposite be possible
FatCatRex – we can think about it in that way because our perception is so much a part of how it is continued. The ripple effect of people believing it then calling their friends and convincing them as well. Gains validity
Anne Dalke – so did they listen to this broadcast make it nonfiction
FatCatRex – for the people that believed it it did. Believed it into being
kgould – wrote a paper freshman year and people are still posting thinking it is real (about vampires and how to meet them)
kgould – thrill of disaster, deviation from our normal daily schedule. While we are not physically in other worlds there are people who do get lost in other worlds
EVD – if you can read a religious text as fiction or nonfiction then its because its based on how you read it. You can listen to the broadcast and hear it as a trick or as a fictional story there are those two stories
veritatemdelixi – I wouldn't take Orson Welles as a serious source but I'd like to have dinner with him
rachelr – you put effort into the performance and created a world that was believable that they could step into
Aya Seaver – having people treat your fiction on nonfiction is disturbing because it feels like they didn't read it or listen. If form and content got attention then this wouldn't happen its more sensationalist to believe that its about their life
Anne Dalke – like readers to have a more distinct perception of fact and fiction
veritatemdelixi – there was a video of him looking very disturbed that people believe him
FatCatRex – maybe he felt that he had to do that for the public. Because he looks like a jerk if he looks pleased by it
kgould – there's being fooled then there's being a fool. Being fooled is “ah ha you got me” being a fool is genuinely believing it
pfischer – there's a culture of skepticism, base level of skepticism.
Anne Dalke – the educational system tries to make you more skeptical, teaching you to be more critical thinkers
owl – my mother thinks that I'm not attached to god because a teacher made me that way
Anne Dalke – the educational system makes you more skeptical
owl – yeah, they do make you question things but they don't make you believe it just question it
veritatemdelixi – you can't fully blame the educational system
Sandra Gandarez – I think that its a difference based on our times because my mom hears something and runs with it while I can go look for proof
EVD – you can believe the bi-co news (April Fools edition) because there is nothing to compare it to
Anne Dalke – has anyone else fallen for that April fools bi-co news?
veritatemdelixi and supermariogirl have
owl – if someone is telling you an April fools joke and laughing you wont believe it, has to be performed
Anne Dalke – War of the Worlds was very well acted
veritatemdelixi – has to be a monopoly on the information
EVD – depending on the news you wouldn't even think about it if it didn't effect you. Like people in California probably didn't care about New Jersey for the war of the worlds
rachelr – fake quiz where all of the answers were wrong in a class, that effected me
veritatemdelixi – did anyone's parents tell you “this is fiction” when they read you a book?
Aya Seaver – yes, its like Santa Clause
rachelr – and the tooth fairy
f for fake
pfischer – the movie was really easy to watch because it was constructed as reality and it was familiar to me. Like MTVs reality tv shows
FatCatRex- I knew War of the Worlds was fake so I wasn't emotionally attached just like I went into this knowing it was a mocumentary. Too disjunctive
Aya Seaver – I don't like reality tv because they're real people so why do I care. I loved this movie
kgould – the style reminded me of the french style
Aya Seaver – by keeping you off balance the whole time you don't have time to notice the time; fell for the Picasso story because I don't know much about him while I knew a lot about War of the Worlds
veritatemdelixi – I fact checked the Cliff Irving thing, his narrative isn't really finished in the movie
EVD – in Wikipedia they list every single one of the tricks or jokes in the movie. Orson Welles is just not a likable person. He was coming up with tricks (actors, places) but you aren't fooling anyone when it doesn't matter it doesn't effect the viewers at all
veritatemdelixi – if you were interested in the art world this would have been very interesting. Lots of fakes in galleries
Anne Dalke – expertise is brought into question
FatCatRex – he chose to make the film in a certain way for his own entertainment. It would have value in his making of the film as a whole
EVD – the pieces that he puts in about people that he knows but no one else knows takes away from the documentary.
Veritatemdelixi – the last 17 minutes were so truthful that factuality has nothing to do with it
ckosarek – it doesn't matter if the painting are fake if people are taking them as real
Anne Dalke – the longer something hangs in a gallery the more real it will become. What does f for fake do to your thoughts about War of the Worlds
rachelr – I didn't fact check and I thought it was interesting, difficult to watch but the storyline was interesting
I thought that “F” is for Fake was a completely false story. The way it was constructed was so difficult for me to follow that I was confused for the most part about everyone and everything occurring in the story. I took everything he said as false and a story that he was making up for our entertainment. It did nothing to enhance my thoughts on the War of the Worlds since I was unable to make a solid connection between the two. I found War of the Worlds so ridiculous that I was baffled that people actually believed it happened. I didn't fact check anything or search for the truth but I found so many impossibilities in the story that I was saying to myself “that couldn't have happened”. My assurances actually had nothing to do with aliens and everything to do with the presentation of the story and the time line in which they presented it. No way in the world would you find an expert 3 minutes after announcing something so important. And how would you get a reporter there so quickly? If you paid attention to the time it took them to complete tasks you would notice the impossibilities.
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These are the best class notes that I have ever seen! After reading these notes i realize how imperative it is that I learn this skill...
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